Daniel Sjursen is a Westpoint graduate, and a retired Army officer who

served in combat tours of both Iraq and Afghanistan. He is a senior fellow at the Center for International Policy, and is a Westpoint history instructor. His books include Ghost Riders of Baghdad, Patriotic Dissent, and A True History of the United States.

Matthew Hoh was a Marine Corps company commander who served in both Iraq and Afghanistan. After reassignment to the US State Department, he resigned in

protest from his post in Afghanistan over US strategic policy and goals there in September 2009. Since then he has worked as a senior fellow at the Center for International Policy and is the former director of the Afghanistan Study Group, a network of foreign and public policy experts and professionals advocating for a change in US strategy in Afghanistan.

Aaron Mate, one of my “go-to” journalists, recently interviewed both men about the US withdrawal from Afghanistan and their professional opinions about our 20-year war in that country.

Over the past few weeks, I have watched and read a great deal of material about America’s longest war and president Biden’s decision to withdraw ground forces.

Of everything that I have scoured, this interview is one of the best.

Both veterans have been long-time critics of American policy in Afghanistan. In the interview below, they rehearse their critical analysis of why this war was wrong from the beginning, why nothing ever improved, and why it was long past time for us to get out. (56 minutes long)

Anti-war veterans explain how US lost Afghanistan while leaders lied, profited