Both of these guys are friends of mine. I am a member of the discussion group they both mention. Darrell Bock is a Zionist and supporter of Israel. Rob Dalrymple is a non-Zionist and critic of Israel.
Here is a great example of how two brothers in Christ can disagree amicably while holding very different positions on an important subject — Israel’s assault against Gaza.
It makes for a very interesting conversation.
After the video, I make a few comments below to further nuance the conversation in ways that I thought could be helpful.
- I notice that Darrell prioritizes Israel’s ostensible, divine right to the land over and above anyone else’s claims to the land as their home. I cannot agree with this decision for a number of reasons, both theological and practical.
- Darrell wants to date the beginning of the Gaza trajedy to October 7. This is another example of what I call “APR time,” that is “After Palestinians Respond.” October 7 did not occur in a vacuum. The members of Hamas were responding to a very long history of Israeli antagonism. It was a response — yes, a terrorist response, but a response nonetheless — to Israel’s prior oppression.
- The weight of the current problems cannot all be layed at the feet of Hamas. Yes, Hamas is bad news. But these hostilities existed long before Hamas came into the picture. They are now a major factor, but cannot be seen as the principle cause of today’s conflict in Gaza.
- I am not a scholar of Hamas, but I will note that the Hamas charter (revised in 2017) does NOT call for the elimination of Israel, as so many seem to believe. You can read the full charter here. I agree with much of it, although I definitely do not endorse Hamas Islamicism. However, for the sake of fairness and honesty, I must point out articles 16 and 20 of the charter: 16. Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity. 20. . . . Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967 . . .
- Notice two important points: Hamas condemns Zionism (as do I) NOT Judaism. It is an anti-Zionist movement; it is not promoting antisemitism, per se.
- Secondly, the charter calls for a Palestinian state with its western border along the Green Line, the 1967 armistice border separating Israel proper from the West Bank. In other words, they ARE NOT calling for the eradication of all Jews from Palestine. They are calling for the eradication of Zionism from Palestine. As I do. I read these two sections to say that Hamas is calling for the coexistence of a Palestinian state and a non-Zionist Israel side by side. In other words, they are willing to accept a two-state solution.
- “From the border to the sea, Palestine will be free” is not an antisemitic slogan. It is an anti-Zionist slogan calling for equal rights, justice and liberty for ALL the people of Palestine, Jews and Palestinians alike. The slogan has nothing to do with ethnic cleansing.
- Whether or not you choose to believe Hamas and trust the words of their 2017 charter is a separate question from whether or not we represent them honestly and accurately in our debates. The 2017 charter explicitly contradicts some of the more common, extremist claims made about Hamas by the representatives of Israel and the defenders of political Zionism.
